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Old 03-04-2002, 12:08 PM   #41
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An eagle or two flying toward Mordor would have caused quite a hubbub, I'd think. Sauron would realize something was awry, somehow.

The Eagles were under Manwe himself, and he sends them only when he sees fit. Well, I think we can assume that, since it's not directly mentioned. The Silmarillion didn't mention whether or not the Valar were cognizant of the predicament Middle-Earth was in, but I think they were, especially Manwe.

In other words, I think it makes perfect sense that the Eagles weren't sent... oh, and there would have only been maybe one book. Not cool. Uncool, even.
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
But what does that have to do with an AU?
I was correcting a previous post in which you said...

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The Eagle bearing Frodo in this Alternate Universe wouldn't have felt the weight of the Ring, though. Sam didn't when he carried Frodo, so why should the Eagle?
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Old 03-04-2002, 03:52 PM   #43
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Gollum

A thought just struck me (auw) and I'll probably be branded as an heretic for this. But did it never cross your mind that Tolkien just didn't want to use the eagles because it would be cheap? Or that perhaps he decided to draw a paralel to the Hobbit where the eagles came soaring in at the end just to save the day? *hides quickly under her computer*
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Old 03-04-2002, 05:08 PM   #44
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Actually, that's been alluded to several times... it would have made for a quick, rather uneventful story. However, I think there are plenty of good reasons for not having the Eagles just swoop them to Orodruin, as aforementioned.
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Old 03-04-2002, 08:57 PM   #45
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Yes, I think the eagles, like the istari, were just here to help in direst (is that even a word?) need and were not supposed to intervene unless absolutely necessary.
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Old 03-05-2002, 01:15 AM   #46
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Maybe they were afraid the Eagles would be lured by the power of the Ring and try to seize it themselves.
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Old 03-05-2002, 06:55 AM   #47
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. . .Eagle bearing Frodo in this Alternate Universe wouldn't have . . .
HEY!!! I don't remember typing that!!!
But anyways, if I really did say that, here's what I meant:
The Lord of the Rings is not based in an alternate universe, this is most definitely correct. But if you go and pull a "What-if?" then it's not really the same universe anymore, is it, because the What-If never happened in reality. Wouldn't that be true, or am I being an [COUGH] idiot [/COUGH] newbie again?
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Old 03-05-2002, 01:27 PM   #48
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Old 03-06-2002, 08:51 PM   #49
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Hey there I'm new on this thread.
I don't think the Eagles could have done it because it would have been even harder. Especially if the King of the Nazgul got on his flying horse thingy and started flying at them. You don't think sauron had a command of flying thing a ma bobs. He would have found them, killed them, Sauron gets ring everyone in world dead.
Also there would be no plot we would have a book the size of the size of the hobbit and noone would read it. I think that if they hadn't gone through all the adventure the races wouldn't have started forming bonds like the dwarves and elves and the hobbits with everyone else.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:17 AM   #50
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Here is an interesting idea I'd never considered.

http://www.tickld.com/x/this-guy-jus...ngs-mind-blown

It's an argument that Gandalf secretly planned all along for the Eagles to take them to Mordor, but the secret died with him in Moria. "Fly you fools" was a last-minute attempt to inform the Fellowship of his plan.

Clearly, the author wrote this argument based on the movies. It is Aragorn, not Gandalf who is hesitant to travel through Moria in the book. Also, I can't imagine why Gandalf wouldn't inform Aragorn at the very least of the real plan.

Can anyone point to more evidence for or against this theory based on material in the books or movies?
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by tolkienfan View Post
Here is an interesting idea I'd never considered.
http://www.tickld.com/x/this-guy-jus...ngs-mind-blown
...
Can anyone point to more evidence for or against this theory based on material in the books or movies?
It is indeed interesting, but your question has prompted me to look and I think I can provide a quote to refute it.

From The White Rider chapter (emphasis mine):

Quote:
'What do you wish to know?' said Aragorn. 'All that has happened since we parted on the bridge would be a long tale. Will you not first give us news of the hobbits? Did you find them, and are they safe?'
'No, I did not find them,' said Gandalf. 'There was a darkness over the valleys of the Emyn Muil, and I did not know of their captivity, until the eagle told me.'
'The eagle!' said Legolas. 'I have seen an eagle high and far off: the last time was three days ago, above the Emy Muil.'
'Yes,' said Gandalf, 'that was Gwaihir the Windlord, who rescued me from Orthanc. I sent him before me to watch the River and gather tidings. His sight is keen, but he cannot see all that passes under hill and tree. Some things he has seen, and others I have seen myself. The Ring now has passed beyond my help, or the help of any of the Company that set out from Rivendell. Very nearly it was revealed to the Enemy, but it escaped. I had some part in that: for I sat in a high place, and I strove with the Dark Tower; and the Shadow passed. Then I was weary, very weary; and I walked long in dark thought.'
So Gandalf sent Gwaihir to gather news of the Company and their fate while he stayed at Lothlorien. It seems to me, if his plan were to enlist the eagles to help, the logical step would have been to have Gwaihir fly him to the Company instead and reveal himself to them so that Gwaihir would be there and help them with the last stage of the journey. Instead, he only sent Gwaihir to "gather tidings". Moreover, he played "some part" in the Ring not being revealed to Sauron. I assume this means that he was the voice in Frodo's head that told him to take the Ring off. If he could influence things this way, it seems to me he would have chosen to reveal himself to Frodo so that Frodo wouldn't take any action that would put the Ring "beyond [Gandalf's] help".

Last edited by Beren3000 : 08-05-2014 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:34 PM   #52
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I am confident that Sauron, who was fully aware of the Eagles, and more so, the innumerable flying creatures available to Rhadagst as spies, had stout air defenses available for Mordor, which would defeat flying animal incursions, and that it was not practical to penetrate his airpace with creatures armored only with feathers until after his power was destroyed.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:23 PM   #53
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You know, part of the reason might be the Mordor Special Mission Flying Corps (MSMFC). We don’t know a lot about them, but Tolkien did design an emblem for them (published in Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator). The Nazgûl were probably part of the MSMFC, but perhaps there were other units as well. Part of their mission might well have been to prevent the Eagles of the Misty Mountains, who were descendents of Manwë’s servant Thorondor (of the First Age), from spying out his territory.
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:09 AM   #54
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Great "Nearly ideas" of History:






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Old 05-29-2015, 12:46 PM   #55
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Whoever was picked to carry The Ring wouldn't be any more able to destroy it than Frodo or Isildur did. That's why Gollum is crucial to the story.
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Old 05-31-2015, 03:46 PM   #56
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Whoever was picked to carry The Ring wouldn't be any more able to destroy it than Frodo or Isildur did. That's why Gollum is crucial to the story.
That’s a very good point, Nerwen! I don’t believe I’ve ever seen anyone make that point before, and this is topic discussed with some regularity in many boards.

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Old 05-31-2015, 06:23 PM   #57
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Whoever was picked to carry The Ring wouldn't be any more able to destroy it than Frodo or Isildur did. That's why Gollum is crucial to the story.
True, but the Council couldn't have known that. I don't think Gollum was part of the plan, besides some vague feelings that he had "some part to play yet".

We had a thread awhile back about whether Eagles could be corrupted. I wonder whether the Council would have known the answer to that question?
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...gles+corrupted
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