tom bombadil and his wife

zavron · 10-29-2002, 07:26 AM

I have found some inf on our mysterious mr bombadil and his wife!!

here it is!

zavron · 10-29-2002, 07:27 AM

Tom Bombardil.

Tom Bombardil the enigma of Arda. I have placed Tom here, not because i know he was a Maia but because i do not know where else to put him. He is not said to be a Valar or Maiar neither is he Human or Elvish. What is true is what he himself tell Frodo in LotR. "Eldest, thats what i am. Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before before the Big people, and he saw the little people arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed Westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." Wery puzzling. He descented maybe with the Valar, he was here before the Dark Lord ( Melkor.) came, and Melkor came soon after the other Valar. He then could be a Maia or a Vala, descented into Arda with the others. It is possible because Manwë called unto himself many spirits both greater and less.. ( Sil., Ainulindalë.) This sentence must mean the other Valar since later in same chapter it is told " And the Valar drew unto them many companions, some less, some well nigh as great as themselves,..." (This was the Vala-people, the Maiar ) Now Melkor saw what was done and his envy grew and he descented upon earth. This proves that Tom was if not Maia or Vala something different from all we know of. He was not Eru Iluvatar since he is outside the confines of Ea ( Though he also is inside.) Tom could be a Maia of Yavanna but lately i am beginning to think of him as the soul of Arda, The incarnation / personification of the combined vision / creation of the Angelic spirits of the great theme. puzzling too right

but it fits very well with the describtion of his vife Goldberry, and his statement of being the Eldest within the confines of Arda. What could possible be elder than Arda if not Arda itself ?.

Tom and Goldberry lived at between the eaves of the Old Forest and the Barrow-Downs in a house by the South banks of Withywindle in Eriador.

Related Links.: Encyc.: Tom Bombardil.

zavron · 10-29-2002, 07:29 AM

Goldberry.

Goldberry the wife of Tom Bombardil. Daughter of the River-woman. She represents the seasonal changes of the lands. (Letters.)

Related Links.: Encyc.: Goldberry.

zavron · 11-03-2002, 06:56 AM

please reply if any of the info has been of any use to any one.

Ms. Undomial · 11-03-2002, 04:57 PM

Zavron- are you sure Goldberry was Tom's wife??

Fred Baggins · 11-03-2002, 05:08 PM

*There is nothing here but scribbles...there was never anything else...what are you looking at?*

Ñólendil · 11-03-2002, 10:26 PM

It's a fact that she was his wife. Or anyway: his lady. They may not have been formally engaged, but they were an item.

Coney · 11-03-2002, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
It's a fact that she was his wife. Or anyway: his lady. They may not have been formally engaged, but they were an item.

Oh yes, definitely an item........Tom referes to Goldberry "his lady", not wife.

Who would perform the marraige ceremony anyway?......Manwe seems a busy chap and I'm sure Illuvatar has things to keep him occupied

Aeryn · 11-03-2002, 11:18 PM

I always thought of Tom, I mean my assumption anyway, would be that he was some sort of other worldly person, not created, and not destroyable.
Doesn't answer anyone's question but oh well.

I also know that my "mind assumption" doesn't follow through with the Sil, and such, It is just my logic!

zavron · 11-05-2002, 01:02 PM

yeh they are kind of married they are man and wife. Mr and Mrs Bombadil I wouldn't have thought he needed to have a ceramony who said that was the way Ainurs get married they may only have to say it.

or do something!

Elvedans · 05-31-2003, 04:16 PM

I don't think Goldberry and Bombadil are married. Although Tom refers to her as his lady, so does Frodo and he is not married to her! I am rather confused about Goldberry though. What exactly is she and what power does she have? When it was raining Tom said that it was Goldberry's washing day, and i assumed that he didnt mean washing clothes. Did she make it rain? But then he said that nobody controls the weather. Also she is called the riverdaughter. What exactly does all this mean?

Fred Baggins · 05-31-2003, 05:53 PM

*humming**takes out a marker and glances around* *seeing no one she scribbles all over her last post* Hehe...That never existed...*glances around and runs off*

Lalaith · 05-31-2003, 06:02 PM

Why is it not possible that Tom is Eru?

Artanis · 05-31-2003, 06:06 PM

Because ... Eru is not part of the world.

Elvengirl · 05-31-2003, 06:39 PM

So Tom is the soul of Arda? Hmm that could make sense. Is that written by Tolkien?

Lanelf · 06-01-2003, 01:56 AM

I reckon Tom Bombadil's insane. Possibly Goldberry is a hallucination brought on by those flowers he was carrying in FOTR. No! Don't kill me, I was just being stupid! After all, I can't find a rational explanation, so I'm going irrational. See? Perfectly logical.
And now I sound like a Vulcan. *beats self around head with laptop*
Lanelf.

Anglorfin · 06-02-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elvengirl
So Tom is the soul of Arda? Hmm that could make sense. Is that written by Tolkien?

No, it's all speculation. But to me it's the most logical interpretation of Tom's character so I tend to go with that when explaining it to someone else.

Among other theories is that Tom and Goldberry are of the Valar or Maiar but there is too much in-story evidence to contradict that.

Elvengirl · 06-02-2003, 11:31 PM

Yea, I wa going to say if Tolkien wrote that I would like to see it.
But I do think it is a good theory, probably the best I've heard.

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-03-2003, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
Why is it not possible that Tom is Eru?

Tolkien specifically said at one point that the One had no incarnation in the Circles of the World, in one of his Letters.

My personal favourite theory is Goldberry's: He is.

I think that a more complex idea is not necessary, and that it is very applicable to such a mysterious figure and Bombi, that he merely IS.

Bombadillo · 06-03-2003, 12:25 PM

I think Tom may have been some type of Maiar or something, but he just didn't care about anything. Wasn't concerned with anything, knew everything is insignifigant. So he came to ME and settled there and watched everything take place like a strange old man, and still keeps his same optimistic, passive attitude. That's pretty much it.

And he doesn't worry about marrying Goldberry, becasue he doesn't worry period.

10-29-2002, 07:26 AM	#1
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	tom bombadil and his wife I have found some inf on our mysterious mr bombadil and his wife!! here it is!

11-03-2002, 06:56 AM	#4
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	please reply if any of the info has been of any use to any one. __________________ Visit http://nilore.suddenlaunch2.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ''ASH NAZG DUBARTULUK, ASH NAZG GIMBATUL, ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK AGH BURZUM--ISHI KRIMPATUL...ash nazg, ash nazg......'' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil- galad was an elven king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the mountains and the sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shinig helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in mordor where the shadows are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

11-03-2002, 04:57 PM	#5
Ms. Undomial Custous Sanctus Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your subconsicious.... Posts: 1,184	Zavron- are you sure Goldberry was Tom's wife?? __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune

11-03-2002, 05:08 PM	#6
Fred Baggins Belladona Gamgee of the night sky Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: second star to the right and straight on till morning. Posts: 1,783	There is nothing here but scribbles...there was never anything else...what are you looking at? __________________ Emperor Cusco: Lemme guess. We're about to go down a huge water-fall. Pacha:Yep. Cusco: Sharp rocks at the bottum? Pacha:Most likely. Cusco:Bring it on. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Yes, I'm female. Fred Baggins is my NICKNAME! ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "The reason of the unreasonable treatment of my reason so enfeebles my reason, that with reason I complain of your beauty."~Don Quixote ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Once upon a time there was a magical land where it never rained. The End."~from the movie 'Holes' ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ()_))_Crayola_))_> Last edited by Fred Baggins : 05-31-2003 at 05:55 PM.

11-03-2002, 10:26 PM	#7
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	It's a fact that she was his wife. Or anyway: his lady. They may not have been formally engaged, but they were an item. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-29-2002, 07:27 AM	#2
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	Tom Bombardil. Tom Bombardil the enigma of Arda. I have placed Tom here, not because i know he was a Maia but because i do not know where else to put him. He is not said to be a Valar or Maiar neither is he Human or Elvish. What is true is what he himself tell Frodo in LotR. "Eldest, thats what i am. Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before before the Big people, and he saw the little people arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed Westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." Wery puzzling. He descented maybe with the Valar, he was here before the Dark Lord ( Melkor.) came, and Melkor came soon after the other Valar. He then could be a Maia or a Vala, descented into Arda with the others. It is possible because Manwë called unto himself many spirits both greater and less.. ( Sil., Ainulindalë.) This sentence must mean the other Valar since later in same chapter it is told " And the Valar drew unto them many companions, some less, some well nigh as great as themselves,..." (This was the Vala-people, the Maiar ) Now Melkor saw what was done and his envy grew and he descented upon earth. This proves that Tom was if not Maia or Vala something different from all we know of. He was not Eru Iluvatar since he is outside the confines of Ea ( Though he also is inside.) Tom could be a Maia of Yavanna but lately i am beginning to think of him as the soul of Arda, The incarnation / personification of the combined vision / creation of the Angelic spirits of the great theme. puzzling too right but it fits very well with the describtion of his vife Goldberry, and his statement of being the Eldest within the confines of Arda. What could possible be elder than Arda if not Arda itself ?. Tom and Goldberry lived at between the eaves of the Old Forest and the Barrow-Downs in a house by the South banks of Withywindle in Eriador. Related Links.: Encyc.: Tom Bombardil.

10-29-2002, 07:29 AM	#3
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	Goldberry. Goldberry the wife of Tom Bombardil. Daughter of the River-woman. She represents the seasonal changes of the lands. (Letters.) Related Links.: Encyc.: Goldberry.

11-03-2002, 11:18 PM	#9
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	I always thought of Tom, I mean my assumption anyway, would be that he was some sort of other worldly person, not created, and not destroyable. Doesn't answer anyone's question but oh well. I also know that my "mind assumption" doesn't follow through with the Sil, and such, It is just my logic! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

11-05-2002, 01:02 PM	#10
zavron Chieftain of The Order of The Blue Flame Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I am a Figment of your Imagination!!! OOOHHHH!!! Posts: 1,729	yeh they are kind of married they are man and wife. Mr and Mrs Bombadil I wouldn't have thought he needed to have a ceramony who said that was the way Ainurs get married they may only have to say it. or do something! __________________ Visit http://nilore.suddenlaunch2.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ''ASH NAZG DUBARTULUK, ASH NAZG GIMBATUL, ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK AGH BURZUM--ISHI KRIMPATUL...ash nazg, ash nazg......'' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gil- galad was an elven king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the mountains and the sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shinig helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in mordor where the shadows are. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05-31-2003, 04:16 PM	#11
Elvedans Diamond Of The Night Sky Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Old London Town (Well somewhere near there) Posts: 366	I don't think Goldberry and Bombadil are married. Although Tom refers to her as his lady, so does Frodo and he is not married to her! I am rather confused about Goldberry though. What exactly is she and what power does she have? When it was raining Tom said that it was Goldberry's washing day, and i assumed that he didnt mean washing clothes. Did she make it rain? But then he said that nobody controls the weather. Also she is called the riverdaughter. What exactly does all this mean? __________________ I see a little silhouetto of a man. Scaramouche scaramouche will you do the fandango? Thunderbolts and Lightning, very very frightening me!

05-31-2003, 05:53 PM	#12
Fred Baggins Belladona Gamgee of the night sky Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: second star to the right and straight on till morning. Posts: 1,783	hummingtakes out a marker and glances around seeing no one she scribbles all over her last post Hehe...That never existed...glances around and runs off __________________ Emperor Cusco: Lemme guess. We're about to go down a huge water-fall. Pacha:Yep. Cusco: Sharp rocks at the bottum? Pacha:Most likely. Cusco:Bring it on. ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Yes, I'm female. Fred Baggins is my NICKNAME! ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "The reason of the unreasonable treatment of my reason so enfeebles my reason, that with reason I complain of your beauty."~Don Quixote ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Once upon a time there was a magical land where it never rained. The End."~from the movie 'Holes' ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ()_))_Crayola_))_>

05-31-2003, 06:02 PM	#13
Lalaith The Elvish Temptress Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,055	Why is it not possible that Tom is Eru? __________________ What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead.

05-31-2003, 06:06 PM	#14
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Because ... Eru is not part of the world. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

05-31-2003, 06:39 PM	#15
Elvengirl Mirthful Maiden Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 1,252	So Tom is the soul of Arda? Hmm that could make sense. Is that written by Tolkien? __________________ The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men.~ J.R.R. Tolkien Wanna play? www.thievesguild.com

06-01-2003, 01:56 AM	#16
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	I reckon Tom Bombadil's insane. Possibly Goldberry is a hallucination brought on by those flowers he was carrying in FOTR. No! Don't kill me, I was just being stupid! After all, I can't find a rational explanation, so I'm going irrational. See? Perfectly logical. And now I sound like a Vulcan. beats self around head with laptop Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

06-02-2003, 11:31 PM	#18
Elvengirl Mirthful Maiden Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 1,252	Yea, I wa going to say if Tolkien wrote that I would like to see it. But I do think it is a good theory, probably the best I've heard. __________________ The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men.~ J.R.R. Tolkien Wanna play? www.thievesguild.com

06-03-2003, 12:25 PM	#20
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I think Tom may have been some type of Maiar or something, but he just didn't care about anything. Wasn't concerned with anything, knew everything is insignifigant. So he came to ME and settled there and watched everything take place like a strange old man, and still keeps his same optimistic, passive attitude. That's pretty much it. And he doesn't worry about marrying Goldberry, becasue he doesn't worry period. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?